In a conversation between business partners Guido Haschke and Carlo Gerosa, the name of Tyagi — a Delhi-based businessman who is also known as Julie — comes up as the duo talk about payments being made in cash for the 2010 deal to procure 12 VVIP helicopters, and brag that Indian prosecutors would never be able to prove the corruption.
A part of the 568-page report records Gerosa as saying that “the only one who is safe from judicial consequence is Julie as they (Indian investigators) are morons and that there is no link”.
Tyagi, who claims to be a former Air Force officer but was not actually commissioned into the Force, is a Delhi-based consultant with an office in the city’s upmarket Ferozeshah Road area. He is believed to be active in the government sector, particularly power.
The following conversation that was recorded on March 1 between Haschke and Gerosa:
Haschke: The important (thing) is that my name does not leak.
Gerosa: Eh mine too. You are the first ring.
G: If the first rings breaks I also come into the picture.
H: Let’s try to avoid that the first rings breaks, first of all!
G: We all agree.
H: And in the meantime we go on with the job.
G: The only one who has no risks is Julie, because we are those in the front.
G: There is really no link there because, I mean... cash.
H: Exactly, so they (the judges) will never be able to prove that corruption was there. They can say that engineering was expensive, though it is not even that expensive, but they can never say corruption was there. This is the essence.
Italian investigators conclude from the long-winding conversation that Gerosa was afraid that Indian investigators could get some clues that corruption took place for the Rs 3,546-crore deal.
“Haschke says they can claim that the engineering was expensive and nobody can ever say corruption took place. Gerosa disagrees and says there are some clues, Haschke says with clues you can be remanded but you cannot be sentenced. Gerosa says it just needs the judge to be convinced that corruption took place, it is not important if you have the proof of how much was paid and to whom,” the report says.
The two Italian consultants, who were extensively trailed, tracked and bugged by investigators, also brag about the fact that the commission paid has been routed through Mauritius and that it would take Indian sleuths years to track it down as they did not know about the Mauritius link. The duo express fear that their lawyer, Gautam Khaitan, may also get arrested if money laundering was probed.
Here is another conversation that also took place on March 1:
Gerosa: It’s clear that if money is no longer there, it must have gone somewhere, don’t we want to say where? In this thing even Gautam will go inside (behind bars) because (incomprehensible) Mauritius. You know when the letter of request will reach Mauritius? (incomprehensible) If they wanted... (incomprehensible)... with the letter to Mauritius (incomprehensible)....
Haschke: Before they send the letter to Mauritius, they have to understand it went there (the money). And to understand it went to Mauritius they first have to send a letter of request to Italy, then to Tunisia and then, maybe, in 10 years....
Italian investigators have also stumbled upon several Indians involved in the deal but have somehow not named them in the preliminary report. In one instance, the investigators summarised they learnt from shadowing Haschke and Gerosa as well as the conversations that were tapped THAT ....
“Following press articles regarding the corruption over the 12-helicopter deal (in The Indian Express), they talk, revealing some minute particulars regarding the sale and some people including Orsi, Spagnolini, Haschke, Gerosa and other Indian individuals involved in the case,” the police report says.
The Italian investigators have also concluded that the middlemen were receiving the “due payments” through moneylaundering operations in Tunisia and Mauritius.
“It is understood that they are receiving ‘the due’, that is the 20 million euros (rest went to Christian Michel) through fictitious operations in Tunisia. Afterwards, the money goes to Mauritius. It is also revealed that Orsi, Spagnolini and other top managers have full responsibility and complicity in the operation,” the report says, adding that the duo talk about other Italian and Indian individuals involved in the dealing.
Italian helicopter manufacturer AgustaWestland has denied that it used agents or intermediaries for the India contract even as it admitted that it was aware of the preliminary investigation in the case.
You can solve ALL these problems! You know the ruling elites(politicians and their families) are corrupt to the core You know the bureaucrats work hand in hand with the criminally corrupt politicians You know the voting populace vote like herd animals, like lemmings, they head straight to the dynastical Congress Criminals on election day. You know the congress will buy voters for 100 rupees If you have Courage and only IF For Gods sake and for Bharat Call Out Godse or is his name spelt Godze
This is a very true and fair comment about Indian system. Not only Indian bureaucracy is maroon but India justice system is worst type of maroon. First of all Indian bureaucracy and political class is all out to support the corrupt and wrong doer. But if any corrupt and wrong doer is caught then Indian justice system is there to protect him Very recently Supreme Court Of India has commented that Indian justice system is very friendly to wrong doers but a hell and torture to honest citizen. Due to this friendly peddling to wrong doers corrupt like Lallo, Mulayam, Mayawati, Karunanidhi, Salam Khurshid, Sharad Panwar, Chautalas are not punished and they enjoy all the joys of power, thanks to Moroon Indian syste.
I am one of the fewer people who were born in "slave but undivided India" and grew up from teens as a proud citizen of India. We were first to discard usual ending of the letters to Governments as "Your most obedient and humble servant". The fact that there was an "Italian" scam is brought to our notice by Italians along with the route of "Money Laundering" officially, (since every-one following the FII investments knows it unofficially) that it is the Indian tax evaded money coming through Mauritius. Our intelligence agencies have all details but kept under wrap, since there is no official complaint. We now have a home minister, who is being investigated by in Adarsh Scam by CBI which reports directly to PM who appointed HM. So any-one wanting to retain his job or do not want an emergency transfer to some Kala Pani posting prefers to be called a moron and pose to be an ignorant dude. Who cares if we are laughing stock in world?
It reminds you of the previous helicopter deal during Mr Rajiv Gandhi's time when the absolutely useless Westland Helicopters were bought from UK. These helicopters were being used by ONGC, but soon were grounded due to the high incidence of crashes. No third world country was prepared to buy them. We don't even know what happened to them; probably lying rusting away in some god-forsaken Government Hangar. If I remember correctly, 22 Westland (UK)helicopters were grounded. Now again, another Westland Helicopter is on the scene, never mind the kickbacks; what about its airworthiness? What about it's running expenses, maintenance, spares availability, and after sales service??
Morons we are, The Finance and Law Ministers even before going through the financial transactions between some Mr. RV and a big power house of a Indian Realtor Company, has given them the clean chit and in a vieled threat to there officers asked them not to investigate whatever is coming in public domain thro' Newspapera or thro' some private individuals. Who is going to investigate this deal? God save the counntry.